The 2024 edition of the annual Indigo Talks featured a longtime friend of the Ikeda Center, Dr. Andrea Bartoli, whose talk was called “Opening Pathways to Peace: The Role of Dialogue in Times of Conflict.” [view video here] Dr. Bartoli is eminently qualified to speak on the topic. Currently he is President of the Sant’Egidio Foundation for Peace and Dialogue as well as Executive Adviser of the Soka Institute for Global Solutions (SIGS) at Soka University of America (SUA). Additionally, during his four decades of experience, he has held positions of leadership at universities such as Seton Hall, Columbia, and George Mason. The thread running through this experience is a deep commitment to understanding the causes of conflict around the world, including those of the most egregious sort, such as genocide and mass atrocities, and direct engagement with those who have suffered to promote dialogue, resolve conflict, and create the conditions for the realization of cultures of peace.
Welcoming the attendees, Senior Program Manager Lillian Koizumi noted that “this is our one virtual program each year,” saying “thank you so much for joining us from all hours of the day and all corners of the world.” Nearly 200 people from 16 countries were in attendance. She also observed that this year’s Indigo Talk was especially meaningful, as it was the first since the passing of Center founder Daisaku Ikeda last November. Above all, Mr. Ikeda maintained faith in the power of learning, a faith that informs the naming and spirit of the series. As Koizumi explained, the Indigo Talks build on the Buddhist expression, “from the indigo, and even deeper blue.” When the featured Indigo speakers share what they have learned through engagement with the writings of Mr. Ikeda, they reveal “the impact learning has on deepening one’s wisdom, courage, and compassion.”
Turning to an introduction of Dr. Bartoli, Koizumi shared how much she and the rest of the program planning team enjoyed “getting to know and learn from Dr. Bartoli over the last couple months.” And “what really struck me in our interactions,” she said, “is how hopeful Dr. Bartoli is. Despite working for decades on extreme conflicts, he has this contagious joy and optimism that has deeply inspired me.” And even though he just returned from doing peacebuilding work in South Sudan, added Koizumi, “he energetically joined us for a run through today and already brought us so much hope and joy in our conversation.”
Then, to conclude the introduction, Koizumi led the attendees in an icebreaker activity in which they were asked to name the one person they would most like to have a dialogue with, posting their choices in the online platform Mentimeter. With results showing up in word cloud format, the two most popular choices were Daisaku Ikeda and Kamala Harris. But not everyone went big. One person said “my dog,” another said “my conservative neighbor,” and another said “all of us here right now.”
Dr. Bartoli opened by expressing his delight in this “wonderful opportunity” to participate in an Ikeda Center dialogue. He also said that the icebreaker activity was especially appropriate because it is our own desire to engage in dialogue with a specific individual that is the first opening to pathways of peace. Before beginning his presentation, he also reflected on the meaning of “from the indigo, an even deeper blue,” considering it in the context of the mentor-disciple relationship. If the mentor is the indigo, then through the process of absorbing the mentor’s teaching, the disciple can achieve “a more splendid blue,” even “surpassing” the mentor. This is an “intriguing” idea, said Bartoli, adding that although most of us never met Mr. Ikeda, we nevertheless might consider him a mentor as we engage with his books, his poetry, his photography. We should consider all these as an invitation to dialogue.
In that spirit, Bartoli said he would base his remarks on selected works of Mr. Ikeda. First is a book of poetry and poems that he received as a gift from Ikeda. Specifically, words and images from this book would guide his reflections on pathways to peace in three of Ikeda’s published dialogues: Choose Life with Arnold Toynbee, Choose Peace with Johan Galtung, and A Quest for Global Peace with Joseph Rotblat. The first pathway to note, said Dr. Bartoli, is that each of these dialogues began with Ikeda deciding that he wanted to speak with each of these figures. In other words, dialogue begins “as a movement within yourself.” The next pathway beyond creating opportunities for dialogue is creating the conditions in which the dialogue can unfold “positively, constructively, effectively” – rather like the blossoming of a flower requires the proper water, soil, and light. One way that Ikeda achieves this, the way he opens a path, said Bartoli, is by emphasizing the relational aspect of dialogue. What really shines through in the three selected dialogues are qualities such as friendship and mutual admiration. “I would call this the beauty of the encounter,” said Bartoli, characterized by “recognizing the good in the other, recognizing that there is life in the other, recognizing that there is peace in the other that is speaking to you.”
Dialogue begins as a movement within yourself.
Andrea Bartoli
Turning first to the Toynbee dialogue, Dr. Bartoli selected an Ikeda poem that spoke to possibility: “Just like unique flowers / bursting into bloom, / We humans have been born / into this unique life. / We are born to bring to blossom / the mission we alone can achieve.” He said that this verse represented the beauty of Ikeda’s encounter with Toynbee. In fact, it was this dialogical meeting that launched Ikeda’s path as a practitioner of wide-ranging peacebuilding dialogue. This dialogue was “the departing point” for Ikeda, observed Bartoli. Here, Ikeda “was learning how to do these dialogues, how important these were, and how important these dialogues would become.”
He then considered the Galtung dialogue in the context of Ikeda’s verse: “Life without laughter / is like a bud that never blooms. / In even the most turbulent times, / let us never lose our sense of humor.” He chose this, because of the three dialogues, this is the one that “could become overburdened by technicalities.” As Ikeda and Galtung present sometimes-differing opinions, they do so in the spirit of possibility. When we think of humor, said Bartoli, we think of how it diffuses tension, which also is what a focus on possibilities does.
Finally, as a “dedication” to Joseph Rotblat, Dr. Bartoli shared the verse: “Peace: a hope-filled conversation / that dismantles / the walls in our hearts / with a smile.” At the time of his dialogue with Ikeda, Rotblat was very old, in his 90s, and had spent many decades at the forefront of the quest to create a world free of nuclear weapons. Bartoli noted that in his preface to the book, Mr. Ikeda expressed his admiration for Rotblat’s life of fearless “devotion” to this difficult cause, one that requires the breaking down of many walls in the hearts and minds of us all.
Considering the books as a whole, Dr. Bartoli suggested three important peacebuilding qualities that become apparent during the practice of dialogue. The first, is to find or access the pathways that already exist within each of us. These pathways are often “relational,” he said, “responding to shared human needs.” The next pathway is to embrace the truth that dialogue is a “field of surprises.” “In other words, the logic of dialogue,” he said, “is that you agree to be present with one another and to be surprised by one another.” Finally, we should understand that dialogue is something given as a gift to another. Taken together we see that dialogue is not something that “imposes itself, but rather a beauty that attracts, and that is present, even in the midst of violence” and other conditions of duress or struggle, as when Nelson Mandela engaged in dialogue with guards while imprisoned at Robben Island.
To wrap up his prepared remarks, Dr. Bartoli shared another hope-oriented verse from Mr. Ikeda: “For one who is troubled, / even a small yellow flower can brighten the path / ahead.” It is possible to find this path, said Bartoli, a path that is needed for us, for the multitudes, and for the world. “And I’m delighted that this Indigo Talk was offered to me,” he continued, adding that
I take this as a gift and I’m offering it to you as a gift. We are participating in a borderless conversation. We come from many countries, many different time zones, and we are steeped in different cultures. I do believe that we are all gathered by this desire to live more fully in peace. Not just this moment, but to live in peace and to let our peace be seen, as you can see the flowers, as you can see the nature, as you can see the life that is around us.
To close he showed a picture taken by Mr. Ikeda of the cherry blossoms in bloom at Hiroshima, where people feared they may never blossom again. But they do blossom now, “even after the destruction so radical as the nuclear bomb.” So, he concluded, “we can see again the peace that is needed, that we can be with one another, capable of appreciating this beauty, this peace that is already there.”
Before posing questions from attendees, Lillian Koizumi thanked Dr. Bartoli for his “powerful, beautiful, profound, and thought-provoking talk.” How important during these times of conflict, she said, to know that “as human beings we have the capacity to find the peace that’s already in us and around us.” With that she asked the first question: How is a dialogue between two people different from an argument between two people? In response Bartoli said that “the fundamental posture of arguing is that I know what [I think] and I just need to explain it to you. I can argue in a more forceful way, and sometimes even aggressively. But fundamentally, the posture is that I simply need to make my case.… If you think about it, the language resonates enormously with legal language, right?” In contrast, with dialogue you know that “whatever you are saying is not definitive.” As we see in the three Ikeda dialogues, you definitely do “go into the dialogue knowing that you have something to say … but you are bringing what you are saying as a gift.” Along these lines, Koizumi mentioned that she previously heard him describe dialogue as a “window of opportunity” being offered to the other. Bartoli responded that while dialogue is not always accepted, it is the desiring and the offering of it that makes dialogue possible.
Question two came from a former student of Professor Bartoli: Would you speak about the constraints that hide these pathways to peace from us and ways we can overcome these constraints? Bartoli answered by commenting on three central constraints. First is “certainty,” in which you already are convinced not only of what you know but also what the other should know. Second is the ability and desire of people to seclude and “close themselves off,” something especially apparent among the rich and powerful. A third instance is something that is important in areas of intense, even violent conflict. That is, the person desiring dialogue and peace must be aware that this might brand them among partisans not as a peacebuilder but as a “traitor,” with dangerous consequences. In many ways, the task becomes one of finding ways to reach the person or leader who says, “I must be violent. I must be oppressive to be who I am.”
Continuing in this same vein, Koizumi shared the question: How do we enter a dialogue with someone who we perceive as being more powerful than ourselves to see that we too have a gift to offer? Building on his previous thoughts, Dr. Bartoli offered some counter-intuitive reflections on the nature and reality of power. There are many cases that someone can kill you, he said, “but you have the power of giving life or inviting life… . And I would argue that the ones that [have given] life have been more powerful” even than “those who have killed multitudes.” Further, “killing is actually the abomination of power,” since “power is what is life giving and what is bringing life to its fullness.”
Koizumi then followed up, asking how we each can develop this capacity to believe we have something to offer, whatever our social power or status? Dr. Bartoli responded that to reach others we should “really cultivate a wonder and curiosity,” because when people are in “anguish and despair” this can be “very important, very consoling, and very decisive.” He added that we should not “underestimate the fragility of the powerful.” What he has found from his work with the Community of Sant’Egidio is that even the most “constrained, violent, and war prone person” has moments in which they are “ wondering” and “really questioning,” asking ”Is this the only way?” He has seen this to be true in Mozambique, in Algeria, and most recently in South Sudan. The lesson is to never rule anything out and to never relinquish hope. Indeed, hope “is almost a duty,” even when it “seems to be absurd.”
Thanking Dr. Bartoli for the power of this message, Koizumi said that there was time for one more question: There has always been a path to peace, as you say. However, the human race has rarely, perhaps, never walked it. Where is the path and how do we walk and stay on it? Actually, said Dr. Bartoli, “I would disagree that the human race has never walked the path.” It is the path to peace, he explained, that has enabled us to overcome the “extraordinary tragedies that humans have inflicted upon themselves.” We must challenge the notion that violence and war are what defines humans, he added. And even where violent conflict does exist, it is also true that “the great majority of people” don’t want it, and are “tired of violence and war.” Referring back to the title of the Galtung-Ikeda dialogue, Choose Peace, Dr. Bartoli said that this “choice is needed” and what most regular people “are longing for.”
After thanking Dr. Bartoli for his inspiring insights, Koizumi explained that each Indigo Talk includes time for attendees to publicly share their main takeaways from the lecture and discussion. A few examples capture the spirit of the contributions: Be more open. Don’t hold on to certainty about a person or issue. Dialogue is being open to the mystery of the other. I love the constant thought of each of us having the capacity for peace. I love that peace is already and always there and it’s up to me to find it no matter where I am or with whom. The concept that dialogue is a gift.
Koizumi then turned the floor over to Center Executive Director Kevin Maher, who shared some concluding reflections. Offering his sincere thanks to Dr. Bartoli, Maher commented on some of the key sources of inspiration in his remarks. There were the notions that “peace is not a distant, abstract idea but rather is a lifelong quest that we create together” and that “peace is already there right where we are, yet it requires finding the pathways to be discovered.” Then there was the critical imperative to “flip the narrative” that “violence and war is central to human beings.” Finally there was the way that Dr. Bartoli drew upon Mr. Ikeda’s photographs and poems, “connecting them with the beauty of dialogue.”
Maher also identified some of the ways Dr. Bartoli’s talk resonated with Mr. Ikeda’s dialogic ethos, including the conviction, stated in Ikeda’s dialogue with David Krieger called Choose Hope, that: “Although it may seem a modest method, dialogue is the only thing with the power to generate soul stirring encounters that truly change humanity. The longest journey begins with the first step. I am convinced that the highway to peace can be opened by repeated dialogue.” Then, in closing, he thanked “all of our participants from across the world for being here today, [and] for your commitment to this important cause” of peacebuilding dialogue. “Tonight’s gathering has filled me with renewed hope and determination,” he said, “ever mindful that peace, in all its forms, is something that we all have the power—and the responsibility—to share.”
Read highlights from Dr. Bartoli’s dialogue with Ikeda Center youth committee members here
Dialogue is the foundation for all of the Center’s activities, but more than that, in the view of our founder, Daisaku Ikeda, it is also the mode of engagement with others and the world that holds the greatest potential for enabling us to realize a more peaceful, flourishing world. This is because dialogue, as Mr. Ikeda conceives of it and we pursue it, is a forward looking and unifying pursuit.
